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What I’m working on, 8-course lute
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Author:  Colin S [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:09 am ]
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I thought I'd put a bit of work in progress up for my new 8-course lute. It's loosely based on an 8-course Heiber lute.

The 13 staves of the shell are alternate IRW and London plane with a separator of holly. Pegbox is also Rosewood with Stained plum pegs, the top is, of course, very tight grained European spruce. The neck will be either cherry or plum (probably with an IRW laminate)

The rose is only partway cut (I'm not telling you about the one I got over-ambitious with) I have only just finished the major cutting out of the apertures and when the paper patern is taken off the real challenge begins.

This lute will eventually be strung in octave using Nylgut instead of my usual real gut and sit next to my chair to pick up at any time for the odd twiddle. The Nylgut strings are not so prone to temperature and humidity changes in pitch, and to keep tuning a 17 string instrument can be a real pain in the....

Hope you like it.

Colin






Author:  LanceK [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:12 am ]
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WOW!   

Love it and I am completely floored!
Excellent work Colin.
Author:  FrankC [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:13 am ]
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I don't know what to say other than WOW! Thats some fine work there Colin.
Author:  Josh H [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:17 am ]
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I don't think I even want to try doing one of those.

Great work!

Josh
Author:  jfrench [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:49 am ]
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GEEZ Colin, that is gorgeous! Not that I expect anything less... Perfect choice of woods for a perfect contrast too.

I think this is about the only thing that I juat HAVE to have that I wouldn't just attempt to make myself. So how many guitars will you need in trade?

Hye are you making the pegs yourself?
Author:  Don Williams [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:59 am ]
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!

Author:  JBreault [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:40 am ]
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Beautiful!
I would love to have a desk-side instrument that looked halfway as nice as I imagine that looking when finished!
Author:  Shane Neifer [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:45 am ]
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Now there's a few hours work!! Awesome Colin!

Shane
Author:  RussellR [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:47 am ]
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Colin Wow

Now that rocks, The body is made of London Plane and what is the dark wood ?

Absolutely love your fretwork on the soundhole, I promise never to moan about doing rosettes again.

Beautiful, Elegant, and perfect material selection.

Do you know how to play one
Author:  Paul Schulte [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:05 am ]
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Colin that is very, very nice! I just HAVE to build one
of those someday. Where can you get plans for that? Of
course I'd have to keep it for myself!
Author:  John Kinnaird [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:38 am ]
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Beautiful work Colin. I am completely impressed and envious.

Are you going to brace the top with flat sawn braces as in days of yore?

John
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:49 am ]
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Colin, before I saw the pix, while I was reading your description, I was thinking "London Plane? With EIR?? Can that look appropriate for a lute?"
Does it ever! Man that's just beautiful. The wood combo is stunning. I enjoy when others' work stretches our own limited frontiers.

Thanks for posting.

Steve
Author:  Wade Sylvester [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:23 am ]
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Colin,
Real nice!
Wonderful!
Once again, you have inspired us all.
I have to go and make more sawdust now...

Thanks for sharing!

Wade
Author:  Dave White [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:23 am ]
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Colin,

Stunning work and gorgeous wood!! And I think I put big arches in my backs

Is 13 a traditional number for the back pieces or are you just cocking a snook to luck and all of that?

Can't wait to see it and hopefully at some stage hear it when it's finished. I think you should go for it and become the Martin Simpson of the 8 course lute world by going into lots of alternate tunings as part of your repetoire!!
Author:  RussellR [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:41 am ]
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Dave

I think that Lute has slightly less arch than one of your guitars
Author:  CarltonM [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:13 am ]
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Colin, I'm bowing in your general direction. Beautiful work!
Author:  old man [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:21 am ]
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Man, there is some real talent on this forum. Stunning.

Ron
Author:  BruceH [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:21 am ]
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Stunning, Colin. How do you work out the shapes of the staves?
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:43 am ]
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That is just ASTOUNDING!!!
Author:  PaulB [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:44 am ]
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Wow, I'm speachless.

One day I think I'm going to have a go at building one of those.
Author:  Don A [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:58 pm ]
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What everyone else has said! Wow.
Author:  Colin S [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:13 pm ]
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Thanks everyone for the kind words, they are much appreciated when they come from guys whose own work has set the bar so high.

I had the soundboard started,the peg box made and the form constructed before I went away, I had been planning this for some time originally using rosewood and maple. Then I saw Russells little London plane guitar and knew I had to change the lute.

Interestingly, all of the wood for it, apart from the pegs and neck, have come from scrap boxes for virtually nothing. The rosewood and plane came from offcuts at a local timber company, the soundboard follows 17th century tradition and is made from non-bookmatched pieces that just sort of look right. Their partners from my stash were defective with voids or resin pockets, and I didn't want to waste old, very tight grain, Euro.

Joshua, you know that you could make one of these if you tried, your workmanship is so good it makes me feel very humble every time I look at you website, which I do often. Yes, I do make the pegs, I do it in a lathe with a 4 jaw jacobs chuck using very sharp chisels, the round head is then flattened and dished on the end of the belt sander. final finish is with a peg shaver to 1:30 taper.

John, yes flat sawn braces, or more rather scew sawn, They'll be 9 ladder braces with 1 long and 2 short tone bars below the bridge.

Dave, yes 13 is a traditional number but really any odd number up to 31 or so has been used. Believe me when I play the lute it always sounds as if it's in alternate tuning!

Bruce, the shape of the staves naturally follows from the shape of the body. First make the construction form that is the shape of the finished inside of the lute. Attach the front and rear blocks. then it's just a matter of taking measurements and dividing by 13 or whatever number of staves. I draw these lines on the form and as I bend each stave fit it to the form with pins in the gaps and adjust the shape as needed, I use a plane held upside down in the vice. It's a fairly logical process. Bending is the hard part, a lot end up broken as you are bending wood into very tight curves at the rear using .110 thick timber. I lightly score the inside of the tight sections.

Sorry for the long post.

Colin

Author:  rlabbe [ Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:53 am ]
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Colin, a few questions about the rose. First, is the pattern your own, or did you get it somewhere? Do have any good sources for rose patterns (I have the Lundberg book already).

Secondly, how do you do the initial cutouts? I've been practicing my chip carving in preparation for doing a rose of my own (for an art project, not a lute), but the chip carving knives seem unsuitable for doing cutouts. Do you use a scapel like Lundberg does?

Great work, btw!
Author:  Colin S [ Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:18 am ]
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[QUOTE=rlabbe] Colin, a few questions about the rose. First, is the pattern your own, or did you get it somewhere? Do have any good sources for rose patterns (I have the Lundberg book already).

Secondly, how do you do the initial cutouts? I've been practicing my chip carving in preparation for doing a rose of my own (for an art project, not a lute), but the chip carving knives seem unsuitable for doing cutouts. Do you use a scapel like Lundberg does?

Great work, btw![/QUOTE]

The rose pattern is not my own I do have a few patterns that I use from various sources, I can let you have some via an e-mail if you want. My favourite is the one that I used on my 10-course lute last year, there are some pictures on the forum. This is the rose from my 10-course .





The way I do the initial cut out to this stage is with a small drill into the space then use a jewellers saw blade threaded through and worked from both sides to cut nearly up to the line, I have a bench with a 1" hole to allow this. The paper is then removed and I use scalpels to carve the 3-D aspect of the rose, this is the critical part, and finally fine grades of sandpaper stuck to narrow strips of wood or plastic, to clean the surfaces I think also that it is important to just relieve the edges of the underside to complete the 3-D effect. The scalpel must be new, very sharp and not forced,(don't ask me how I know)

Don't hesitate to ask if I can help with patterns.

ColinColin S38688.5146643519
Author:  Shawn [ Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:54 am ]
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Looks great Colin. A real classic and all of the traditions are preserved. In what way did you vary from Heiber? I like the choice of Plane...I built with plum and yew (for the lighter staves) but the quartersawn flake of the plane is really nice looking.

I like that you went with unmatched halves to the top...very historically accurate.

I have built 2 Lutes in the past, one working from Lundberg's book and one which was a reproduction of a 17 stave basketcase german lute that was not restorable but that had enough shape to be able to make a form from.

Joshua...the challenge has been thrown out...as Colin would say, "technically you cant call your self a luther until you have made a Lute ". You have the skills...any interest in tackling a Lute? I dont have the forms I used for mine but parting of building a lute is making the forms anyway...I have a 10 course design that I have been wanted to build.
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